Mile High Report

Raiders can repent

Lionel Washington did good things for us back in the day after being silver and black!

I was huge on Denver going after Sproles last offseason. How did that work out for New Orleans?

My two guys this year are Louis Murphy and Wallace Gilbury of KC. Denver needs to target those two guys. They won’t be nearly as impactful as Sproles, but both would really upgrade our depth at DE (pass rush) and WR.

Raiders and Chiefs

want to win, they can do so when they make themselves Broncos, sounds like a wise investment for us to make!

AlwaysRightSometimes - January 16, 2012 reply

Did you say we already have 'three POSSESSION WRs?'

I don’t know what you consider possession, but I think of ‘hands’ guys that catch everything thrown their way. This team was #3 in drop rate… And ‘mine own eyes’ tell me that we don’t have any receiver, WR or TE, that Tebow or XYZ QB of the future can throw to consistently with confidence.

D. Thomas improved a lot, but he’s still no ‘possession’ receiver. He doesn’t run great routes, doesn’t adjust well to a ball that isn’t quite on target, and still lets easy catches bounce off his chest once a game.

Sorry, but who would you consider a good possession WR on this team?

PS, I don’t like the draft mock here either, but, I do see an EXTREME need for someone that can freakin catch and make plays consistently.

it wasn’t necessarily a compliment. i think mcgeorge is saying that we’ve got a bunch of receivers without a ton of speed. if they’re not burners they pretty much default into the ‘possession’ category. DT looks fast but i’m not sure he’s that burner type who can spread the field. might be though.

Eh... a possession receiver to me is an Ed McCaffrey...

Who while in process of having his leg BROKEN still catches the ball. We simply don’t have a guy with great hands. We, stupidly, shipped him off to St. Louis. Brandon Lloyd was a true possession WR, so much so that he’s also a threat at any point on the field because he could make ridiculous catches.

we shipped him cause he wanted out

thats fine we went to the playoffs without him!

Jon Tollerud - January 17, 2012 reply

I hear you on his attitude... but I'm not sure that we couldn't have worked that out.

I wasn’t in the locker room, so I don’t know for sure, but Brandon Lloyd last year was very excited about playing with Tebow. His beef was with playing Fox’s run-oriented offense.

However, for a 5th round draft pick, it wasn’t worth shipping him to me. I would have forced him to stay through his contract close and trusted that the rest of the locker room would have won him over.

No sense in crying now though I suppose, just need to help Timmy out moving forward

Im almost certain Lloyd was Mike Silver's "high ranking official"

All the quotes Silver used sounded like quotes Lloyd has said before.

The really stupid trade wasn’t Lloyd. It was Gaffney. That was a really stupid trade. Sort of offset the really great Bunkley trade.

Thank goodness Denver lost faith in Eddie Royal so we won’t have him around anymore to let the team down consistently.

It was both.

For Gaffney we got zero.

I agree - Gaffney was a freakin KEEPER!

Not to mention the guy loved Tebow!

Exactly. Such a bad trade and bad idea.

I wasn’t complimenting our WRs. Thomas developed well this season, but Decker regressed with Tebow at QB and Royal flat out sucks with anyone at QB. Matt Willis is a #4 and nothing more.

I’d like to see Denver add a deep threat because we don’t have one.

Decker can be a possession WR, DT can be our #1, but where is the speed? where is the play maker or slot guy? We don’t have one. If I were the GM, I’d sign Louis Murphy and draft a 5’10 speed demon WR in round 3 or 4.

I wouldn’t even offer Royal a 2nd contract.

Royal - Not even as a pure KR/PR?

Not sure if he would accept that anyway but am curious.

pure KR/PRs get paid the vet minimum on short term deals.

I still think Eddie fancies himself as a legit NFL WR (he isn’t).

Denver needs to cut ties with Moreno and Royal in order to backfill their roster spots with guys that really do have potential to become good.

We can’t continue to live in the fantasy land where Moreno and Royal actually live up to the draft status or rookie year production. It’s killing us in the real games.

I'm an Eddie Royal guy

as everyone knows, but perhaps he really is the Eric Metcalf/Glynn Milburn type exclusively. He has value, in the return game, but at what price? Perhaps we can get a more dynamic Vai Sikahema type in the draft for less jack

Vai Sikahema… good throw back Brad…

Eddie Royal couldn’t hold Metcalf’s jock.

And if I remember correctly, Milburn was a lot like Royal. A mind disappointment as a 2nd round pick that never really developed into much of a player.

i’d take milburn, actually. he wasn’t great but he killed it for a couple of years in all purpose yards. he’d do a little bit of catching, running, returning in every game. more than eddie gets us.

shanahan overestimated eddie’s speed. …or someone did.

I’d like Eddie Royal a lot more if his name was DeSean Jackson.

Oh well. Jackson seemed like a no brainer pick in 2008 but Shanny did all kinds of crazy at the NFL draft that usually didn’t work out.

Royal was still a much better pick than Limus Sweed or whatever jackwad WR the Redskins took.

Oh dont tell that to Max

He’ll prove you wrong with all kinds of charts and stats showing how were really the 2nd best in drop rate and your eyes are lying to you and bla bla bla

really? max would do that? ;)

I know, shocking right?

Maxwell also told me before the season that Moreno and Royal are actually good players.

I told him to take that six sigma green belt stat nonsense and bury it in the dirt.

In both cases, I still stand by my opinion that Royal and Moreno are sub par players that offer Denver very little in both the short or long term.

I am more interested in Max’s take on Tebow. Not so much the stat stuff.. Just his overall view on the kid.

Its hard to get him to give you a straight up opinion

While I like Max, all his stats and figures and overall argumentativeness can get tiresome. Rarely though, do I see him shoot from the hip, or tell you how he really feels about a certain player without bringing his stats into it. The last debate I got into with him he was trying to convince me and Rodney that we would be fine going into 2012 with McGahee, Moreno, and Ball.

I actually agree with Max on most things

and if he’s like me, the reason he won’t give a straight opinion on TT is because the issue is decidedly mixed/blurry.

TT is not a good QB. now. He does a million things wrong, takes too many sacks, fumbles too much, misses open guys, etc. etc. All this is backed up by a ton of evidence/stats/etc.

That said, he shows these glimpses of promise, and that tantalizing whiff of greatness, that indicate if he can clean up some of his problems (perhaps with a real offseason of coaching), he could be our answer at QB for the foreseeable future.

To me, he’s definitely earned first shot at failing next year. No need to spend huge resources on a new starter, but bringing in some competition/good backup in the form of a solid FA or mid-round pick makes tremendous amounts of sense. If TT improves, great… if not, by week 8 or so next year we may be to the point of needing to move on to the next candidate.

I can agree with that

If he goes into TC the undisputed starter, has all the coaching focused on him, and were still seeing the same QB from the Miami game, the Detroit game, the Bills game, 2nd KC and 2nd Pats game going into week 8, then Im all for giving Quinn a shot and starting over at QB. However, if he continues to grow like into the guy we saw from the Raiders game, the Minn game, the 1st Pats game and the Steelers game, then I’ll be ok with him taking the reigns for the forseeable future

Nah. Give him the entire 2012 season. If he is really bad, that will be good for us long term because the fans will bail on him and we’ll have a Top 10 pick to go after Barkely or Landry Jones or the kid from Tennessee.

But I think it’s all a moot point you discuss.

I think Tebow is going to kick ass in 2012.

I think he’ll emerge as a Top 10 QB and easily the 2nd best QB in the AFC West well ahead of Cassel, Palmer or Orton.

thats my hope!

I don’t know if I’m as confident as you, but I certainly wouldn’t bet against TT… he has a lot of issues to fix, but seems to excel when folks tell him he “can’t” do something…

and really, if he could just get to the point where he consistently can anticipate and hit the quick slants and hitches against tight man coverage (timing patterns into tight windows), he’ll be WAY better than he is this year… all of a sudden the single-high man coverage will cease to be as big a problem, and his other talents make softer zone coverages problematic… small improvements definitely have the opportunity for big differences in result.

mcgeorge also alludes to the other piece of the tebow question, which is if it’s not tebow, who is it? the best answer going around at the moment seems to be matt flynn. to which i’d say, ‘no. seriously.’

With the 25th pick in round 1, there is not an alternative to Tebow in 2012. Not a realistic one anyway.

Besides, Elway already crushed that talk when he said Tebow is the starter for 2012.

So there it is. Tebow will be our QB next year and we’ll see where that takes us.

Matt Flynn will be chucking passes for a team like Seattle or Washington because they’ll pay out the ### for him and they’ll offer an undisputed path to the starter roll.

Then Flynn will do a Kevin Klob or Scott Mitchell or AJ Feeley and I’ll laugh at Seattle.

agree completely

Even if Flynn pans out and is great… he’s no more certain to succeed than TT at this point. Definitely not worth a huge pile of cash.

Grab a decent backup and/or high-upside mid-round pick to hedge the TT bet, and re-evaluate next year with more data on TTs development (or lack thereof).

Tebow led his team to the play offs....Kolb or Flynn aint done that...just sayin'

boydy2669 - January 18, 2012 reply

apparently you didn't hear

Jim Rome’s show today, Elway only committed to Tebow for training camp, so Rome claims. I tend to side with you though, for with a full offseason to work the kinks out, Tebow will dominate!

You are so right. Some small improvements from Tebow in the passing game will freak out defenses league wide.

He learns to hit just a few routes with consistency, it will force teams off the line of scrimmage, open up running lanes and keep safeties deep.

Tim also needs to learn how to play at a faster tempo. He needs to get his ### to the line much quicker so he can diagnose the D and audible. If he can’t do this by the start of next season, I’ll be ready to move on from him because this is something experience and practice can easily fix. He should have it down after off-season workouts and TC.

i want the broncos to lock tebow up in one of those police handgun courses where they walk around a fake town, dummies pop out and the cop has to decide whether to shoot or not within a split second. tebow would have a football instead of a handgun of course. … or maybe there’s a better way to do it. like hook him up to electrodes and shock him when the ball’s not released in a certain amount of time. he would feed off of that.

Rivers may be the AFC West's best

but San Diego will be 6-10!

still don't get giving Marty the boot...

And hiring Norv to replace him!? Does not compute.

Mike@4th&99 - January 17, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Demarious Prime

Keep in mind, This guy has never really had an offseason. How many Rookies and 2nd year players are starters or big time contributors on this team? ALOT. After being drafted in 2010 most signed right at or after the start of camp and were swimming in the new playbooks, nobody had an offseason last year. This offseason is HUGE for dozens of guys. Next year will tell a story of who we can be.

I like that nickname for him

And Im glad he’s making me eat crow for being down on him. If he can stay healthy, he’ll be a force

the_prodigal_fan - January 16, 2012 reply

Cal, he is going to be great...a big man with 4.35 speed...even if he lost some....hes still a 4.4 guy who is huge with elusiveness.....he will be even better next year!

boydy2669 - January 17, 2012 reply

I like the 1st pick Sayre

We have holes at MLB, DT, CB and Safety. I think taking a TE in the 2nd doesn’t work for me. Am I wrong or do we only have Vickerson and Warren on contract next year for DT? Mays, Haggan and Woodyard are all free agents. Who says we have a MLB on the staff? It’s painfully obvious we need a CB to replace Goodman.

ConradA - January 16, 2012 reply

I disagree with you on the TE.

I am absolutely down with drafting a TE in the second. We had no production out of the position all year, and when I watched Tebow in college, he was at his best when he had a solid weapon at the TE spot. I think that getting a true receiving threat TE could be the most immediately impactful thing the Broncos do on the offensive side of the ball this off season.

if we draft a TE, it's Stanfords Coby Fleener.

Zac Man - January 16, 2012 reply

+1000!

rubincarterrocks - January 16, 2012 reply

Fleener won't we around when we pick at 25

and we have much more glaring needs than pass catching TE – a position which we drafted last year.

DE_BroncoFan - January 17, 2012 reply

We have Ingram on PS....he was a go to guy for Tebow....keep an eye on him.

boydy2669 - January 17, 2012 reply

I had a dream

the other night that Cornelius Ingram morphed into a modern-day Mark Bavaro, it was pretty weird, too much Cherry 7-up as a midnight snack, Cherry 7-up and pretzels….

I dont think we waste a pick

this high on a TE. We dont use them other than to block. If they decide to move forward and cheat off the Patriots, then maybe but until then, We would be better drafting an additional tackle that has good hands for the 2 or 3 times a game we might have to go out for a pass.

kimbertr - January 16, 2012 reply

agree

We have some TE’s that can actually be good receivers but McCoy\fox haven’t used them that way. Drafting another won’t change those play calls.

trumanj - January 16, 2012 reply

Disagree on 1st round RB

Lots of FA RB, maybe Hillis wants to come back? I’d love LaMichael James in the 2nd to be our Sproles. IMO, 1st round needs to be DT, MLB or CB. The one Offensive player that intrigues me is the TE from Clemson. He may be special.

Hillis wants waaaaaaay too much money

Just because he made the cover of madden last year suddenly he thinks he rates getting paid like he made All Pro this year. No thanks to that diva, unless its on the cheap

Draft Insanity

Forget about drafting players for the offense. The first five rounds should be dedicated exclusively to the defense, if not all seven rounds. 4 defensive interior linemen, a top middle linebacker, a safety, and another linebacker or defensive back. The current Broncos defense is in the bottom quarter of the league at best, and significant personnel changes and additions are needed and is essential to get this club into upper echelon of the conference and league. Next year’s schedule will be much tougher than the ‘11 season was as seven of the ten nondivisional games will be against playoff teams, including offensive locomotives in New England, Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta, Carolina, San Diego, and Oakland. The four AFC North clubs will be better on offense as well. We certainly don’t want any more of those 45-10 and 49-23 blowouts, so it is vital to address the more important part of Denver’s ills first rather than the luxuries on the other side. Defense wins - see Giants, 49ers, Ravens ….

JackDiamond - January 16, 2012 reply

Well it won’t help to beat those teams if the offense can’t score. The offense struggled badly this season. They need a balance of borh offense and defense in the draft.

jbbroncosfan27 - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

Replace McCoy and the offense improves

I am with you on this except for really wanting a game changing running back.

BRASO - January 16, 2012 reply

Not a fan of 1st rd RB

Unless its a slam dunk. If there’s a Orakpo type of player sitting there,& we go for a Knowshon again,…I’ll b sad

Mike@4th&99 - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app reply

me too

but both of those guys were taken in the 1st half of round one at 25 we might as well be at the top of round 2. Im a longhorn fan so that choice really killed me, but oh well.

If we can find a game changing Chris Johnson(#24 overall) type player at that spot then I say pull the trigger. I dont know enough about Miller to say either way.

BRASO - January 16, 2012 reply

true dat

Anyway I’ve got much more confidence these days they’ll do a thorough job

Mike@4th&99 - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app reply

Exactly though not a 1st rounder

Rb’s shelf lives are just too short.

trumanj - January 16, 2012 reply

REC +100000000000

Defense is the key

merf1955 - January 17, 2012 reply

agree

If the broncos allow less than twenty points they usually win and the tebow driven offense needs to control the ball and time of possesion to help the defense. Improve the defense and it helps the offense by not making them have to score 28 plus to win a game. The ravens team is a perfect example of this.

jtresdogs - January 17, 2012 reply

What if Miller is gone? Zach Brown or trade down?

Zac Man - January 16, 2012 reply

Probably Mark Barron, SS or Dwayne Allen, TE

Maybe Michael Brockers, DT

ElwayFanJ - January 16, 2012 reply

I wouldn't mind keep Quinn and use the 4th round pick on a DL or a DB

Still waiting for some production to come out of Irvin and Thomas (MLB and TE).

Broncos_BZ - January 16, 2012 reply

Looks like you believe Franklin is a blindside pass protect tackle

If we are building around Tebow, how are we going to protect him from blindside sacks? His sack rate (sacks per attempted pass) this year was 10.9%. Orton’s was 5.5%. The primary difference there is that Tebow is lefty and Orton is righty and our o-line is built for a righty.

The worst pass protecting o-lines in the league this year were
1. Chicago and Minnesota – 9.8%
3. Miami – 9.6%
4. Denver – 9.2% (mix of Orton and Tebow)
5. STL/Arizona – 9.1%
6. Jacksonville – 8.9%

I don’t see how we can do to our QB going forward what those teams did to theirs this year.

Franklin - Rookie.

The only NFL team that started a rookie at blindside tackle this year

apart from Franklin (post-Tebow) was Indianapolis (Castonzo) — sack rate 6.9%

Franklin was never projected as a blindside tackle. Castonzo was.

Nor IMO did we draft Franklin with Tebow in mind as our “QB of the future”. No lefty has EVER succeeded in the NFL without their team drafting/FAing a LT type and slotting him in at RT.

I hear you....

I’d just say give him a year….

Franklin's scouting report from Mocking the Draft

Pass blocking: Franklin possesses the ability to hold up in pass protection. He has a strong base which allows him to anchor and reset after the initial contact. His quick feet help him mirror potential rushers. However, he doesn’t possesses the quickness to constantly hold up against speed rushers. He will likely be exploited if asked to play left tackle in the NFL. There are some wasted motions in Franklin’s set which allows defenders to get into his body. He doesn’t have a violent punch and would rather absorb the contact than deliver. This is a concern because it will make him susceptible to power rush moves. Overall, Franklin has a good solid base and quick enough feet to provide solid protection at either right tackle or guard.

If Franklin is left alone to protect Tebow’s blindside, he will fail and Tebow will fail in Denver. If we have a TE help Franklin on that side, then scratch one TE from our receiving options.

I don't understand how he will get quicker next year

Primarily saying its not worth a draft pick....

Not all about quickness either….

Why not

Flip sides of Clady and Franklin? It might take some getting used to for each, but Clady is better for protecting the blind side.

Sneaky_Sean - January 16, 2012 reply

Seems like a no-brainer...

…to at least try to flip Franklin and Clady. And even Kuper and Beadles. Might not work, but with an actual training camp to try it out, it should be looked at, right?

YouAreSignedIn - January 16, 2012 reply

The tackle position is not based on what hand the QB throws with...

Based on pressure and the side a defense brings pressure from. LT left on island regardless of whether the QB is right or left handed. Its all about protection packages, where the RB chips etc….so switching Clady and Franklin only INCREASES the pressure on Franklin, and therefore, Tebow.

boydy2669 - January 17, 2012 reply

The Tackle position should based on the dominant hand of the QB

A defense is going to increase the pressure from the side the QB has more difficulty keeping an eye on, and in the case of Tebow and other left handed QB’s it is from the right side, his “blind side.” Either tackle is left on an island at any time, and just as the idea of where the more athletic tackle is lined up changes you would switch the RB protection and slide the line protection to the other side. Now this is not always true, but it does tend to happen.

Sneaky_Sean - January 17, 2012 reply

I would also add that he is enormous and destroys people on the run......give him a year.

I agree that Franklin is a run blocking monster

Pull The Trigger

I think him being Left Handed is a small factor. Regardless of what you think about Orton, he is a starting caliber quarterback who gets rid of the ball in a timely fashion. Tebow is not adept at reading the defense quickly and confident in putting the ball in tight spaces. Might come with time but right now he is going to get sacked alot regardless of the line.

denverrefugee - January 16, 2012 reply

No other NFL team with a lefty has thought it was a small factor.

Or rather no team with a successful lefty has thought that. The Bengals drafted their “future LT” in the round before they drafted Boomer Esiason. The Niners drafted their LT the year they got Steve Young. The Falcons FA’d a LT the offseason after they drafted Vick. In every case, the player was plugged in at RT.

who were these players?

Getting a better RT is one thing… but you still want the better 1-on-1 blocker on the leftside, because they are more likely to uncovered.

I have never heard of a team switching its overall “handedness” for a southpaw QB… the Young 49ers were most defintiely “right-handed”. Munoz was a LT, not a RT for Cincy…

None of those teams switched tackle slots

They added depth at tackle – with a “left tackle” type at both tackles.

The Bengals drafted Brian Blados.

The Niners drafted Harris Barton.

The Falcons picked up Todd Weiner as a free agent in the 2002 offseason.

okay, so you're saying we need a new/better RT

… in which case, he’ll have to be pretty good overall to beat out Franklin, who while having some issues against speed rushers, makes up for it with his dominant run blocking ability.

We did bring Ryan Harris back, who is a very good pass and runblocker (when healthy)… if he can beat out Franklin, great… but I wouldn’t spend a huge amount of resources in the draft or FA for what are likely to be marginal gains at the RT position. We definitely need depth at OT/OG, so I’m fine for using some resources there in a general sense… but specifically targeting a starter replacement for Franklin seems a poor use of resources.

fact is that Franklin’s biggest problem is mitigateable because as the strong-side OT, we can easily help him with a chipping TE or RB on most plays. I wouldn’t expect us to shift to a “left-handed” offense where he is often uncovered, just because TT is left handed… like Cincy with Munoz, etc., the dominant one-on-one passblocker will be lined up on the left.

Plus, Franklin is a rookie… we can expect his footwork and recognition to improve too, which further indicates any improvements over him from a new player are likely to be marginal rather than decisive.

I repeat

assigning a TE to chip block on Tebow’s blindside will simply render that player irrelevant as a receiving option.

And I don’t see Franklin as “replaced” in any way at all. Kuper won’t be back IMO until bye week next year. Six months for the bone to heal, three months for rehab – and the season has already started. Franklin can also sub in for Beadles, Clady, Kuper, and new RT for injuries — we were extremely lucky this year not to have any until the end. And he can sub in for any of them during any run-heavy quarters.

And 2012 is Clady’s contract year. He may well be gone in 2013. His side is precisely the side where a TE/RB can chip block and also be an outlet option for a lefty QB.

I've seen your arguments about TT's problem seeing the releasing TE...

… and there may be something there. It is however irrelevant to Franklin.

No team has ever switched their “strong side” to the left…. I don’t see why we’d be the first. No team has flopped their OTs, and the best OT for passing protection always remains the LT.

Therefore regardless of what it may do to the TE as a receiving threat (I think its a relevant factor, but perhaps overstated… why doesn’t the TE just release across the middle?… or double team with the G instead (as decribed)?), Franklin will still likely be the strongside, and therefore have help chipping more often than not.

I’m all for improving if possible, and we do need better OT/OG depth… if Franklin gets beat out by the competiion, so be it. But expecting a new person to outperform Franklin overall is likely to be a marginal gain, not a decisive improvement… and therefore probably not a huge area for big draft/FA$ investment.

I have never said flop our OT's

The issue for a lefty QB is to create a strong deep o-line. That’s not just for the lefty’s sake. It helps every aspect of the offense. Having a lefty QB is just the catalyst that forces a team to commit to a strong o-line.

If the team wants to save a few bucks on o-line and emphasize something else instead; then they shouldn’t have a lefty QB.

that isn't the difference

the difference is TT likes to hold onto the ball for 4+ seconds… look at FootballOutsiders QB sack rates data (I posted it as a fan shot a week or so ago)…. the reason TT takes so many sacks is because he holds onto the ball FAR too long.

Franklin isn’t great in pass protect (he got abused saturday night), but the difference between Orton and TT’s sack rates is not their handedness. TT needs to get faster in his reads and “pull the trigger” much faster, and then any continued deficiencies Franklin has against speed rushers can be mitigated with a chipping TE or RB…. his benefits as a runblocker to this offense outweigh his negatives.

cjfarls - January 16, 2012 reply

How much of that time is post-scramble?

Tebow scrambles too early. No question. And that’s a rookie problem. But there are many times when he’s scrambling because there is pressure on him. Sack rate doesn’t include hurries or pressures.

And that chipping TE/RB who is assisting Franklin is going to be a pass-eligible TE who plays no part at all in the passing game. Hard to see how he’s going to improve his passing with one less receiver than any QB except Vick.

Example

Orton threw to the TE’s 2 times per game more than Tebow. Same TE’s. But for Orton those chipping TE’s were on the sightside – for Tebow on the blindside. That’s 2 times per game where Tebow loses a dumpoff option when he’s being hurried/pressured. Where he thus also has to hold the ball longer to find another option.

he scrambles and tries to extend plays alot, and takes a lot sacks because of it

it is a very typical problem for scrambling QBs.

Given Orton had a relatively low sack rate with the same Oline, we can posit theories on why TT holds the ball too long (playcalls, can’t see the TE, slow reads, etc.), but complaining about Franklin’s pass blocking seems a minor issue comparatively, and one that can be mitigated with a chipping TE or RB (as its really just the outside speed guys that give him fits… he can stand up the bull guys fine)… can also do switches with Kuper dropping deep to take the speed guy (as Bill Walsh did to stop LT in the 80s) too, if that becomes necessary.

What I don’t see is flipping our whole offense to be left-handed, as basically no team in history has ever done that (even those teams with HOF lefties like Young, etc.)… rungames, etc. are all built “right-handed”, and TT isn’t so great/such a sure thing long-term that we blow everything else up for him… he needs to adjust, not the other 20 players on offense.

the tackle slot is the only "big" change

A team has to protect its QB’s blindside. Doesn’t matter whether they are lefty or righty. Fail to do that and your QB has a very short career. Doing that by assigning a TE to be a perma-blocker on the right because you don’t want to change your traditional right tackle (who is typically not a good enough pass-protector to play left tackle for most teams) simply takes a pass-eligible player out of the list of receiving options.

The solution is depth at tackle. Not making an offense “left-handed”. Right now there are a few teams that have enough depth at tackle where it wouldn’t matter whether their QB is lefty or righty – Saints, Patriots, Texans, Panthers, maybe Chargers and Bills. The rest are either right-handed/skewed o-lines – or completely useless o-lines. We are right-handed.

Err... the QB holding onto the ball too long actually starts with the play call,

if the routes called are play-action deep outs,ins or posts – it will take time for the play to develop. (Which obviously means the QB must hold the ball longer). Most of our play-calls are DEEP routes, as the offensive scheme is run-based with the occasional home-run pass play. The run is supposed to suck the safeties to the line of scrimmage, leaving the deep ball open, but that means the QB must hold it longer.

Then there is the WRs. It is their responsibility to create separation and a window in which the QB can throw. If you have great route runners, it isn’t long before the ball is out of the QBs hands – however, our WRs aren’t great route runners. DBs are often glued to them every pass play. That said, their failure can also be attributed to McCoys’ as his unrelenting-predictable- deep route choices are easily covered by opposing DBs who know that we do not run slants, ins, or short crosses over the middle.

After that, the QB must decide to throw it – whether it’s a timing route or a sight route. TT does have some problems with being too conservative, or indecision as it were, but much of the extensive ‘ball holding’ can be nipped in the bud by the O.C.

as numerous analysts have said

there are open guys, but unless they are WIDE OPEN, TT sometimes is hesitant to “pull the trigger”. I agree with that assessment.

The emphasis on deep routes may contribute… but that just means TT needs to be quicker at hitting his outlets if it isn’t open.

Many plays don't have 'outlets.' Which is a gripe I have with McCoy.

There’s always an RB or TE available in the flat for guys like Brady and Rogers when nobody is open, but I haven’t seen the same for Tebow. It’s like the keep everyone in for Max Protect, but when the 2 WRs downfield don’t get open – he’s stuck trying to make something happen with his feet or throwing it away.

This is scary, but I agree with you. RT is a concern moving forward for the Broncos...

If the F.O. truly desires to see an improvement in the passing game, outside of the need for Tebow to improve, they will have to see vast improvement from the RT position.

A QBs success is always tied to his O-Line, particularly blind side protection, and his WR corps. Not to mention the scheme installed for the passing particle of the offense.

bush

fwiw, I didn’t really ever see Rafael Bush screw up. I didn’t see him do anything amazing either, but to me, he looked pretty solid.

tunesmith - January 16, 2012 reply

I think he's a good depth at DB, but not a playmaker in the position.......

Broncos_BZ - January 16, 2012 reply

I like the mock, Sayre

However I wonder if we shouldn’t focus on the defense first….

Fabio Broncos - January 16, 2012 reply

Agreed 100%

We have to get a quality CB or DT before the 3rd round IMHO.

ElwayFanJ - January 16, 2012 reply

I like all Defense....

But I’d take that Wilson kid too….

I'd rather not waste another first round pick on a RB

You can get those guys later, if that’s what you need. Running isn’t even as important as the passing game in a team’s success. Yes, I understand Denver was #1 in rushing this year but the way you win in the current league is by passing. I’m just not convinced adding more running backs should be a priority. Seen flashes from Lance Ball and Jeremiah Johnson, Moreno will be back, (whether we like him or not) and McGahee wil be back and even older, but hopefully fine for one more season at least.

I’d like to see a primary focus on secondary (safeties and corners) but the tight end and receiver picks would be smart to go along with that. Adding secondary and receiving talent is what this team really needs.

The Fall Guy - January 16, 2012 reply

Moreno...

…could be pretty sweet as a 3rd-down receiving back. Making him the change of pace to McGahee’s power might be the right fit for him. Y’know, as long as both are healthy. I don’t wanna spend the #1 on a RB.

YouAreSignedIn - January 16, 2012 reply

That's the problem.

The only change of pace Moreno offers is ‘slower’. He’s not that quick at all and I wouldn’t be surprised if McGahee’s not the faster back.

I doubt we’d go with a #1 RB but it’s definitely a position of dire need. This team needs to address speed on both sides of the ball and at a lot of positions.

tiderfootball09 - January 16, 2012 reply

Another TE at 2?

Hope not,didn’t we just draft two athletic non-blockers last year? Maybe they’ll b ready next yr

Mike@4th&99 - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app reply

yep and lets promise to throw more to a TE

Clompy - January 16, 2012 reply

Thanks for the write-up, Sayre. I always dig them.

However, I disagree somewhat with what you have taking place. I, like others, believe we need to continue to draft defense early and often. We still need a premier DT, IMHO. We also may need to draft OL due to Kup’s injury. I also think we can get a RB later on, rather than using yet another first round pick on one. Also, QB will probably need to be addressed as we only have Tebow and Quinn currently. It is shaping up to be one hell of an off-season.

postpunk27 - January 16, 2012 reply

Too Many Holes to Fill

I think It’s safe to say that we’ll see a thousand mock drafts between now and late April. I also think we agree how many positions need to be filled. The great debate exists as to when we make necessary picks. So my question is, don’t we take the best player on the board relative to need? Is a RB more of a need than a stud DT or ILB? Miller may be the pick in round 1, but I love Mike Daniels, the DT from Iowa. I’m not saying to take him in the first round. However, I love his motor. Maybe the DT from Cincy fits the need in the 5th or 6th rd. And one more question, have we given up on Julius Thomas?

MattyP5280 - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

Thanks, Sayre, love reading your mocks

When you do your mocks, are you taking a BPA strategy or drafting for need? It seems to me that the needs are more on the defensive side of the ball, particularly up the middle. No doubt the offense could use help, too, but IMO if they got that defense rock solid with an infusion of talent, the offense would be fine with the improvement of time in the system.

pubkeeper - January 16, 2012 reply

Love the Lamar Miller pick

Not sure Orson Charles represents a ton of value in the 2nd round especially since we took 2 TE’s last year. We could probably get a CB like Stephon Gilmore, Trumaine Johnson, or Casey Hayward or a DT like Jerel Worthy or Alameda Ta’amu with that pick.

ElwayFanJ - January 16, 2012 reply

I am just starting

to see what is out there around the 25th pick but I dont think we do RB. WE need speed and beef in the same package I think. We need a quick DT and OL. Not sure of that guard from Stanford will be available at 25 but he would be one of my top choices but I think he goes higher than that. I also am in favor of trading back if at all possible. Fortunately if that is not the case, many good players have fallen to that area of the draft as steals.

kimbertr - January 16, 2012 reply

How bout Darren Thomas

QB out of Oregon instead of Russell Wilson? He declared to come out of college early.

DenverWonder - January 16, 2012 reply

Not a chance. Wilson is head and shoulders above Darren Thomas.

Thomas will be lucky to get drafted.

I was going to say

I don’t think taking a TE in the 2nd is a good move for this team. I then remembered you’re going to do about 25 more mock drafts which will be differet so there’s no point in fussing

T.Dot_Bronco - January 16, 2012 reply

The first and last picks are fine...The rest can be picked up in UDFA.

bfree2bronc - January 16, 2012 reply

Runninback

Ive said this before in a previous thread but I really think we have a gem on IR. Mario Fannin, if he can get healthy I expect great things from him. He’s a bigger back 5’10 230 lbs ran a 4.3 and played in a similar system in college that we currently use. He knows how to share the stage and the load with a mobile QB ( Cam Newton). He ran for over 1,000 yards for the Tigers and is the Tigers all time leader in receptions by a RB, so he can catch out of the backfield. Give this guy a shot in training camp.

OrangeRhino - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

really like Fannin too

that said, there is a reason he dropped, and the guy is fairly injury prone, so counting on that chicken, when it still is very much in the “egg” stage, seems premature.

cjfarls - January 16, 2012 reply

Interesting

I don’t like 1st round RBs though so I hope we go a different direction. Just seems like poor value given the devaluation of RBs in today’s NFL. Seems like you can often get a solid contributing back in the 3rd-4th round for much less of an investment. Really feel strongly about getting a strong TE, so I like that.

scooter17 - January 16, 2012 reply

S, RB, WR, DL

Secondary is in need of a playmaker (Champ while still effective is not the playmaker he once was). Might be paired with a FA to allow the rookie to get seasoning. Heavy reliance on running and fragile/old combo of Moreno/McGahee needs new blood. Receivers are below average. Thomas could emerge as a #1 but still need a #2.D Line can be addressed with FA and pick up developmental guys in later rounds.

denverrefugee - January 16, 2012 reply

Don't we have 2 5th round picks (an additional one from the Lloyd trade?)

I like the 1st pick and the 3rd but don’t see us picking up a TE after we drafted 2 last year (same logic as the not spending a pick on a safety no?).

I like the CB pick but don’t like Russell Wilson personally. If we’re going to take a small QB I’d rather have Kellen Moore.

I don’t see us taking a DT so late either. For a position that takes time to develop I imagine us doing like we did last year. Targeting a guy in rd 2 and if he gets taken then using FA to supplement. Last year DT was arguably our biggest need and the FO passed on all of them once they couldn’t get their guy (allegedly Jarvis Jenkins).

I think Brandon Thompson could be a target in rd 2 this year as well although as low as we’re picking he’ll probably be gone.

I think we’ll take a look a MLB too since most likely Irving will be the only MLB worth having on the roster prior to FA.

BroncoMath101 - January 16, 2012 reply

I thought the same thing re: the tight ends

I think they need to be given more time to develop. They were both drafted as high upside players that needed development. I think drafting over the top of them would demonstrate that they’ve either made a mistake in their talent assessment or they’ve lost a bit of faith.

Since I’ve taken the time to comment, My two cents is that I expect the #25 pick not to be where we pick. I suspect that they’ll hold on to the idea of wanting 3 starters (like last year) and will hope to achieve that be picking up another 3rd rounder by dropping back, while hoping that someone from their board that they like drops to their new draft spot.

What I would really love is to hear a journalist get into Fox’s ear about Irving and J.Thomas and really understand where his head is at with those two players in particular. All these Tebow themed questions are a distraction from all the other questions that they could be asking!!

orange&blue_aussie - January 17, 2012 reply

I agree. I want to hear the thoughts on Julius, Irving and Rahim Moore. What happened and what are the thoughts on them going forward?

Will get better, Bust, will get better.

That’s my guess.

tiderfootball09 - January 16, 2012 reply

it seems most of us are in agreement on our needs.

I will be better at Guessing what direction our Draft board will go, after free agency is over. I am so glad we don’t have to go through what we did last offseason and this year should give us a good idea how E F X is really doing.

CenCalBronco - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

BPA first BPA second and need third round is my motto. Why do you think the Giants have those monsters at the D line and wideouts?

anton... - January 16, 2012 reply

I think Chris Polk and LaMichael James are the two best RBs in the draft. Certainly wouldn't take a RB 1st.

1st – DT – Devon Still or Jerel Worthy
2nd – RB – Chris Polk or LaMichael James
3rd – CB – Trumaine Johnson
4th – QB – Kellen Moore
And so on…

SethGrandpa - January 16, 2012 reply

I would take David Wilson in the second before James and even Polk

Trent Richardson, David Wilson and Lamar Miller are so far ahead of Polk and James it’s almost unfair to compare them.

Nick Cast - January 16, 2012 reply

+ 1

tiderfootball09 - January 17, 2012 reply

The last year when the RB who was so far ahead of everyone else actually was the best RB in the draft was 2007 (AP).

RBs are so inaccurately ranked by the prognosticators these days that it’s almost comical.

SethGrandpa - January 17, 2012 reply

I like this draft a lot.

Save Kellen Moore. I wouldn’t take him with a draft pick. I’d use it on a QB with more potential. For every Drew Brees, there are 25 Chase Daniels and Danny Wurfuls (Florida QB from the 1990s), Moore is going to be another Chase Daniels.

Priorities

CB… by far and away the biggest need. Champ is running low on gas, and Goody is done. Squid/Vaugh/Harris all seem better depth/nickel backs than starters, though Harris continues to impress. But waiting til the 3rd to address this seems a big problem.

RB is indeed a big need, as McGahee will hit the wall sooner than later, and our depth is poor. Moreno is okay, but can’t stay healthy… so don’t hate the 1st rnd pick.

DT if we can’t bring Bunkley and Thomas back, but they were more than serviceable this year. But can see spending some resources here.

MLB and Safety are huge needs… can understand giving Irving/Carter/Moore time to develop, so may be suited to a vet FA than another draft pick… but need competition some way. Mays is just unacceptable in coverage and doesn’t always get deep enough in his drops, and that also makes the middle of the field coverage (Safeties) look worst than it otherwise might).

So… not a huge fan of this draft, but as other have said, FA will be a big determinant of what we still need come draft day…

cjfarls - January 16, 2012 reply

Ditto.

Where our 'needs' are versus what F.E.X draft will be two different things this year...

NEEDS:
1. DT that can collapse the pocket from up the middle.
2. CB that can pair with Champ as a #2, or #3 with Chris Harris
3. WR that can be a #3 or #2 option, preferably an explosive-tall one (6’4 be nice)
4. MLB that can tackle consistently and actually cover a TE
5. OL that can provide depth, one that is more pass-block oriented
6. RB, big and patient. Doesn’t need to have break-away speed, just hit gaps well.

What FEX drafts:
1. ILB…
2. RB…
3. CB…
4. S…
5. DT…
6. DE…

FEX doesn’t believe in drafting for the offense, at least not yet. However, RB is an expection. Though, admitedly, they have stated that their ‘passing offense’ struggled the most this year – they will ignore helping it through the draft and pick up a mediocre WR to help (actually, I think they just signed one tonight). They will spend a high pick on an RB, unnecessarily IMO.

While we had some (Bunkley) D-lineman step up this year, they’re still not A-rated. I’ve always admired the Giants DL’s that can rush 4 guys and get consistent pressure. You want to help your CBs and create more turnovers? You don’t do that by adding another 2nd round CB, you do it by pressureing the QB and forcing him to make poor decisions and bad throws. Unfortunately, FEX believe that we’re ‘good enough’ at that position IMO. Big mistake.

Just my opinion. As a side note, I am affraid that we missed on BOTH our Safety picks from the 2011 draft. :-( and with Dawkins likely retiring, it could get ugly back there.

Oops...

Should read FEX drafts:

1. ILB
2. RB
3. CB
4. QB
5. DT

I forgot that FEX are willing to help the ‘passing game’ only by bringing in competition for Tebow. My bad.

Listen to the Presser from yesterday again - I don't think that's true that EFX think we are good enough at that position.

Fox didn’t specifically mention the D-Line as in need of an upgrade. But he specifically mentioned the need to get a better pass rush. and that implies he will drafting (or aquiring FA’s) to bolster the front 7.

I agree with your thoughts on getting better DT’s who can collapse the pocket. I’ve got a feeling Fox does too. As a betting man I would say a DT in the first round is very possible.

I hope so... but, last year that was an obvious need and FEX said they had

plenty of talent at that position. So, I won’t be surprised if they pass on it again this year in favor of a VERY late round DT (one that will basically be on the practice squad) or none at all and just go straight to FA.

And here we go

Not a week has passed…no time for us to grieve and you are already butchering drafts? :)

RB in the 1st is a waste.

TE is not necessary. We have young talent, train them and use them.

We need a MLB so SOOOO bad and not one on the list.

I’m sure you will cover these in one of your next 3,402,323 mocks. ;)

Already butchering drafts?

C’mon man. You don’t like don’t read it.

I'm trusting Sadarine's little smiley at the end of his sentences means he's playing his post tongue in cheek.

Anyway I love these mocks – even if they covered the college games over here properly i would never find time to watch them

These drafts give me a chance to hear about college players I know nothing about. Keep them up!

^^This^^

pubkeeper - January 17, 2012 reply

Yes the emoticons were meant to add levity to my statements.

Well British Bronco

the problem with collegiate football IMO, at the I-A level anyway, is the championship is decided arbitrarily, via computer even. In any case, there is intense controversy because there is no playoff as all other American sports employ, including the I-AA, Division II and Division III levels of college football. Thus, quite literally, the true value of college football lies in the assessment of prospects for the NFL.

He's the big time draft staff guy...I expect a lot better I guess.

But yeah, after the next 5 I’ll probably stop reading honestly. It gets old fast and unfortunately gets front page article status which is just the lamest thing ever when you take into consideration how many he does. Hard to read anything else when the main page is 5 mock drafts…

Wow So Sayre posts a mock draft and there are 22 comments in regards to tebow

time to give it a rest guys!

Jon Tollerud - January 17, 2012 reply

here here

T.Dot_Bronco - January 17, 2012 reply

Elway did a great job yesterday by stating the obvious.

Tebow will be the undisputed starter next season. So stop asking stupid questions about Tebow and lets focus on improving the Bronco team.

Right on McGeorge

T.Dot_Bronco - January 17, 2012 reply

Might it be possible,

to package our #1 along with the #5 from the Lloyd trade and a player or players (I nominate Mays and Goodman – grin) to move up from our current position to about 6 to 8 and pick either Morris Claiborne or Dre Kilpatrick as our elite CB? And if Dawkins isn’t able to go one more year, how about moving Champ to safety in 2012, and let the new CB plus the current incumbents and returning IR players fight it out for the CB spots?

We’ll have McGahee, Moreno, Fannin, Larsen and Johnson to start out with next year and could pick a good RB in the 2nd round. We’ll also have Ty Warren back. Green and Julius Thomas should be significantly improved by next year. In fact, with a real off-season this year, I would hope to see real improvement in all of this year’s rookies and sophomores, and we could sign a free agent MLB if Irving isn’t capable of playing full-time.

If it truly is going to take three years of good drafts to built a solid foundation, then let’s focus on the most important areas when drafting. Why take a QB any higher than 4, if we take one at all?

So my priorities, after moving Champ to Safety (if replacing Dawk) would be:

- elite CB – Claiborne or Kilpatrick
- either an RB or DT – best available of the two areas
- either a DT or RB – the opposite of our #2
- best speedy WR available
- a QB with talents similar to tebow (second #5 is traded with our #1 for Claiborne or Kilpatrick)
- best OL available
- BPA

For Free Agents, an MLB, an older QB, an OL, and re-sign Bunkley.

Give our young guys a chance to mature this year, add talent through the draft in key positions, and get a couple free agents for strategic spots. Comments?

bill2975 - January 17, 2012 reply

Oh, and figure out how to rush 4 guys against good QBs, not 3, damn it!!! (LOL)

bill2975 - January 17, 2012 reply

you can rush more than three?

i thought when playing brady you could only rush three after counting to “10 Mississippi”

Jon Tollerud - January 17, 2012 reply

LOL

I like the package up some picks and players for one of the top two CBs.

orange&blue_aussie - January 17, 2012 reply

Dude you wouldn't get away with that transaction

Two layers we don’t want and a early 5th round pick to move from number 25 to number 8???

Nope – not gonna happen.

two players…

orange&blue_aussie - January 17, 2012 reply

You beat me too it. Some fans have no concept of draft day trades. Reality clashing with fantasy.

This guy shouldn’t get his hopes up because Denver trading into the Top 10 of the 2012 draft (using a measly 5th rounder) is like expecting us to come out and win that NE game after halftime.

McG

You gave up hope at halftime? I’m disappointed.

It was 35 to 7 bro. Our D wasn’t doing jack squat out there and I don’t have faith in Bruton, Bush, Joe Mays and Co.

Sorry.

Yeah, the team pretty much went into quit mode from the first TD. Reminded me a lot of the Lions game, right down to the final score

Our effort on D was pathetic Saturday night. Right down to the faking of injuries.

It was embarrassing.

Yeah, I was even embarassed for the "fight" Miller started

Dude, if your gonna cheap shot someone, at least knock em down. Pull an Andre Johnson and throw some blows. But that little shove in the back was embarrassing to say the least. My sis is a brave soul. She rooted for the Broncos the entire time at a sports bar in Boston. I would have left by halftime

So did my sister. Good girl, but tough fight.

Von needs to get healthy because an injured Von Miller may as well be named Jamie Winborn.

Well he did say the pins came out today

Tough break, it would have been just in time for the AFC Championships too. Oh well

kind of a nostalgic trip down mcD-days memory lane. ah, the good old times of seeing your defense get kicked in the teeth immediately and then crumple to the fetal position before the second set of downs…

A lot of Shanny's defense's were the same

remember the 08 seaon finale?

Bro, a 5th rounder and our 25th overall choice are not going to get us anywhere near the Top 10 to draft an elite CB. Put down the orange crack and come back to earth.

We’d need to trade next years’s #1 overall pick sight unseen to trade up into the top 10.

Yes please.

Next year’s 1st round and what?

I’d venture to say the trade would look like this. Our 1st rounder in 2012, our 1st rounder in 2013 and our 3rd rounder in 2011 to move up from 25 to 8 in order to take Kilpatrick. Whom doesn’t even look all that great to me. good, but not awesome.

OK Thanks.

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

This chart may help with draft value

While its not a bible and you will see silly trades occasionally – generally speaking this gives a reasonable idea as to what trades up/down would cost.

Its not been updated to reflect the rookie pay scale which may mean high 1st round picks may be in practice even more expensive.

Anyway if that chart is correct then to get into the top 10 we will need to give up our 1st and 2nd at a minimum and probably our 3rd as well.

Bingo. Good post British.

Get real Bill

OK, so maybe it takes a 1 and a 2 and something else

Isn’t it worth looking into, to see if there is a package we could offer one of the teams in that range that would get us a possible Champ-junior CB? Teams have wasted picks on worse.

Just because it’s unlikely doesn’t mean it’s impossible, unless we don’t bother to try. The use of brainstorming techniques encourages generating lots of ideas, however outlandish, because sometimes the most outlandish ones or some variant of them turn out for the best.

(And thank you for your helpful reply, British Bronco. It’s always nice to have a constructive discussion with people who don’t sarcastically put down other ideas just because they are unlikely.)

bill2975 - January 17, 2012 reply

It's a great idea in my book bill.

You just got to work out the details with the chart BB posted.

Teams that are one player away can afford to trade up (think Saints for Ingram or Falcons for Julio Jones). But teams that are multiple players away, like Denver, cannot lose those needed picks in the upper and middle rounds.

I hate to say it

but we can fill roster slots with late round picks. Our bench should be composed entirely of high-upside guys who are learning rather than UDFA’s with bench upside

Our team has too many 4-12 type players like Lance Ball and Joe Mays. Guys with the talent of an UDFA.

Why our coaching staff loves to feed them PT is beyond me.

What are the alternatives?

There will be many in UFA and the draft.

Lance Ball and Joe Mays are dime a dozen players that are found on practice squads and college teams every off season.

I think we should keep the pick and find a DE that can rush the passer consistently opposite Doom (or pick up one in FA)

A great Corner like Champ can’t even cover all day when there is no pass rush. Shoot, case in point, Patriots and even Chiefs this year.

I wish it was that easy LOL

Is McJedi the GM at NE. If so, then it is that easy… If not, then.. well.

Sorry, that trade never works. quantity does not make quality. You can't just add players we don't like and expect to get a higher quality out of it (draft position)

Look at what the Falcons gave up for Julius Jones. That is about what we would need to give up to move that high.

And they scored 2 points in their playoff game.

I don’t mind grabbing playmakers, but a team with huge depth problems at multiple positions cannot afford to do that. At least not this season.

Sorry, I read your post wrong. We actually agree.

Sayre, how's it going?

I was in SF yesterday for some surgery.

Out come the mocks. Love it. That mocks are coming out that is, not this particular mock. Hey did you have to say the season is FINALLY over? I could’ve dealt with a few more weeks of it. :)

Well

the new league year begins March 13, a more propitious portent than what the preceding March 13 brought so NFL Network is accurate once again, football season NEVER ends :)

I dont understand why everyone hates first round running backs?

yes they can be injured, but so is every other player. We’re a running team, and our prospects at running back arent that great

1. McGahee
Old, nicked up and will hit that over 30 wall all running backs hit sooner rather than later

2. Ball
He’s okay, nothing special

3. Johnson
Practice Squad guy, nothing better than a 3 guy

4. Moreno
Everyone wants to keep giving him a chance because he’s a first round pick, but all he does is sit the bench, dance, and get hurt

So a running back is a major need, so lets take one of the best in the draft. Now i keep hearing, “I’d rather take one later…” why? I think Mike Shanahan spoiled alot of you. Plus John Fox will take a runner early and often.

Let me rewrite this for you

Two. Lance Ball
“Practice Squad guy, nothing better than a 3 guy”.

That we gave Lance Ball major carries this season is exactly like wasting 5 2011 games on Orton. I fully expect an RB overhaul in 2012 that leaves guys like Johnson and Ball playing in the CFL or arena league. Pretty much where the belong.

Right ball is a 3 guy.

He had his moments, but i dont expext him here. Johnson isnt great at all. I’d love a DT early but it will be hard to pass up a guy like Miller.

Love his burst and excellent speed. Reminds me alot of Portis

Portis...

The second best draft pick of the Shanahan era.

MTBroncosFan - January 17, 2012 reply

^ This

Ball isn’t squat honestly. He makes a few good plays, but he makes a few bad plays to offset. Rarely does he make a “Great” play. He’s depth at best and I’d rather keep Johnson for depth over Ball as our #3 guy.

when the line blocks well

Ball busts loose, but true tailbacks, when healthy anyway, can at least get 2 or 3 yards every time, such as McGahee

because the talent curve

at RB is MUCH shallower than for other positions… the difference in expectations between a 1st round RB and 2nd/3rd rounders is much less than the difference between a 1st round CB vs. a 2nd/3rd rounder (for example).

Add in the short-life span of NFL RBs, and taking a 1st round RB, particularly in the first 20 picks, is completely idiotic. You can make an exception if the player is one of those dominant guys that would otherwise be the #1 pick at another position (e.g. AP, etc.), but even then its a risky play, and better for teams that have few holes than a team with multiple needs like most early drafting teams.

Drafting a 1st round RB in the late 20s I don’t HATE for the right player, but I’m not sure Miller is so much better than the 2nd/3rd round options that he’s worth the opportunity cost of giving up a CB, DL, etc.

Teams that spend lots of picks on 1st round RBs are teams that are likely to be worse off talent deficient at other positions, because they have to continually replace the RB, and miss out on the pro-bowl caliber prospects at other positions that typically are only available in the 1st round.

Fox loves drafting RB in the first round. I think we should expect it.

How many teams have a dominant running back now?

Most have paired up (Giants), use committees or utilize a short passing game to be their run game. (Patriots)

Ten years ago, the level of play was different and dominant RBs were imperative to winning.

Not so much anymore. Even Adrian Peterson doesn’t do that much for the Vikings.

Ray Rice, Frank Gore do alot for their teams who are playing the Championship games.

And if it wasn’t for Yates throwing 3 picks, Foster’s led Texans would be there.

Automatik41 - January 17, 2012 reply

Patriots and Giants have elite QB's

we’re not going to have a dominant passing game, so we need a dominant running game. If we’re going to run alot, why not get the best talent out there?

Scotty Payne - January 18, 2012 reply

Seems a contradictory to me

I completely agree with your argument about Safety that if the Broncos want to add to that group then FA is the best route for them as they have acquired a number of young players in that position through the draft last year.
I was just wondering why you would then turn around and contradict that logic by taking a TE in the 2nd round and by also saying that they need youth at WR, two positions where the team has drafted multiple players in the last few years.
I would love to see veteran talent added at Safety, MLB TE, WR and OL (the last position I think needs both youth and veteran talent) to allow the young recent draft picks to mature and develop.
My personal preferences for areas of improvement in the draft are along the lines you suggest RB, CB, DT and also DE (depth mainly) all areas I believe the roster needs to get younger at better.

SteveUK - January 17, 2012 reply

Orson Charles:

Fumbling away championship trophies since 2008.

GoGators15 - January 17, 2012 reply

I'd rather not see offense addressed until later in the draft.

In the first round, I’d like to see someone like Fletcher Cox (DT), Andre Branch (DE), or Stephon Gilmore (CB). Depending on whether a DB or DL is drafted in the first round, go the other way in the second. In the third, we can look for a TE or WR.

I have nothing against Wilson, but I don’t see a need to draft him in the 4th (taking up a spot that could still go to a defensive player that can contribute) when Kellen Moore will be there in the 5th or 6th.

Tezcatlipoca - January 17, 2012 reply

Defensive Line was ignored last year

In year 2 of Elway’s 3 year plan, DLine cannot be ignored once again

Clompy - January 17, 2012 reply

I agree with your theory on green bananas....

which is why I scratch my head on a RB and TE in the 1st 2 rounds…..Others have expressed the same so no need to go into detail.

I was hoping we would get through at least 1 week without the mocks popping up, but oh well ;)

At least FA will happen before the draft this year, which should better clarify our needs.

Thanks for the post!

Broncotodd - January 17, 2012 reply

I fully agree on TEs, but RB is the one position in the NFL that requires no prep time. Every year several NFL rookie RBs have great seasons.

As such, the ONLY time you draft an RB in round 1 is when you have a team ready to compete immediately.

Or else you are like the Vikings. You hit a home run drafting Adrian Peterson, but by the time you build a team around him, he has torn his ACL and he’ll never been the same again.

A QB or WRs prime is in his mid to late 20s. An RBs prime is 21 to 26.

Also if our offense is going to be a run heavy team

like ours, we take the best available running back talent we can get. If we were a pass heavy team, then sure go later. But we need to surround tebow with weapons

Forget Tebow. We don’t need to build around him or any one player.

What Denver needs is better players period. We need to make sure we don’t have to rely on no talents like R Bush, Lance Ball, Hoch, Joe Mays, Tony Carter, etc.

Tebow may or may not be the long term QB. But our offense does need better RBs, better WRs and better TEs regardless of the QB. Payton Manning couldn’t turn Lance Ball into a treat. Nope… We need to draft or sign an RB good enough to be a threat. We need to do this at WR, CB, MLB, DT and FS as well.

if Peyton can't enhance you

that’s a pretty legit condemnation :(

I disagree

I disgree with every single pick on this mock draft.

anti382 - January 17, 2012 reply

Well give a reason why you disagree?

I so much agree with this logic. The only way i’d consider drafting a RB in this year’s first round is if T. Richardson was to drop to us. Unless of course we’ve already covered the position through Free Agency. I’d love to get one of many available DT’s that’ll be available in the late first. We should consider DT Dontari Poe. He would be to us what Jenkins was to Fox’s early Panthers team.

Yes. DT. If we want to make Von Miller and Elvis more potent, just draft a DT that can collapse a pocket.

I could not agree more McGeorge

ultraclassic04 - January 17, 2012 reply

I’d be stylin if the Broncos took a Devon Still in round 1.

Exactly. Look at what the Giants are doing. Look at what they did to New England in the super bowl. They don’t even have a great DB combo but they cover well because of the 4 man pressure.
Our secondary was exposed late in the season right after Miller hurt his hand. Also it turned out that Dumervil was playing with an injured foot. That along with Dawkin’s injury killed our defense. Cornerbacks are great and important, but i think a kickass front 4 is the most important.

get pass-rushers WHEREVER they are

the G-Men do things the right way because Eli is better than anyone thinks he is and they put pressure on the QB, Aaron Rodgers looked really frustrated, like a fat kid who doesn’t get the last banana split or Creamsicle in the lunch line

agreed

yep, agree

if richardson were to drop, I’d be fine with a 1st round RB… the value is too good to pass for a position of need.

Otherwise we have more pressing needs that can’t be filled as well with later picks.

Great post Sayre

Draft talk never comes too early for me.

FWIW

All of you who are freaking out should take this prescription for a chill pill and get it filled immediately. My first round mock has ALREADY changed. This is pretty much a daily thing and just one of the options.

Today’s mock: Quinton Coples.

I am not against taking defense, and you can bet that some of the mocks will be fully defensive oriented. But, go ahead and hate this one, I’m fine with that. I think all these guys would help our team out, because as bad as our D looked against NE, our offense looked equally as bad and sometimes flat out pitiful at times this season. We need help, especially at RB. We have a tight end we drafted last year, and we don’t have to give up on him. I think we’re going to use a lot of 2 TE sets, so getting elite talent offensively is something that needs to be done.

Like others have said, you have to wait until free agency to get a better read on these things, so who knows how this will change in the coming weeks/months.

Coples might be top 10 to 15 won't be there

I have heard this said about at least 30 players. One of them will be there.

I think Quinton Coples will cry if he falls all the way to 25. not happy tears like Rahim Moore… Nope, very sad tears of lost income out the window.

He might

I would welcome the tears to Denver.

then a rotation of Ayers Bunk Thomas and FA on the inside, that sounds good

Me too. I’m always super jealous of teams like the Ravens that take awesome players late in round 1 that should have been drafted earlier.

Usually works out well for them.

I’m more worried Denver goes the Seattle route and overdrafts some LT like James Carpenter and of course, that LT turns out to be as good as George Foster or James Carpenter.

the Seahawks have also

made some wise decisions though, such as Kam Chancellor and K.J. Grant, getting Brandon Browner, who was in our training camp once, from the CFL’s Calgary Stampeders, also seemed to be smart

Seattle does much better outside the 1st round. Round 1, not so much. Aaron Curry, O’Kung (not very good), Earl Thomas (awesome) Carpenter (not so good).

Curry played well as a Raider though

Kind of well, but not really.

Certainly not Top 5 pick well. More like 3rd round pick well.

Not sure you can entriely blame the Seahawks scouting department for Curry

He was concensus Top 5 in just about every scout/media report on him.

I suspect many other teams would have made the same mistake had they had the same pick.

You are correct Sir. Just saying Seattle has an ugly history of recent #1 picks. 3 of 4 are not looking good at all.

that's true

I think the jury is still out on Okung with him getting injured, but the Seahawks played better when he was injured, and Earl Thomas is Polamalu, so everyone at Field Gull says

Don’t make me panic like that, those 1st round picks from 2000-2003 were horrendous.

Denver selects… Willie Middlebrooks… I puke.

Denver selects…. Ashley Lelie… I puke, then cry…

Denver selects…. George Foster… I cry, punch myself in the mouth, then puke.

Denver selects… Moreno… I puke, curse, then punch the TV…

who did we trade Foster for?

With Tatum Bell for Dre Bly.

A lose lose trade for both teams. nice!!!

man bly sucked ass....then picked off Orton in his first preseason game lol

Willie Middlebrooks

was a CFL journeyman, that’s all you need to know about him

:-(

Stop McGeeeeeeeeee, I can’t take it anymore.

PS, you forgot WR Marcus Nash & DE Jarvis Moss.

I didn’t forget. Just couldn’t add to the pain…

Denver selects… Dan Williams… DT and future bust.

Also

If I thought we could land Michael Brockers, you know it’d be the first round pick of every mock from here out. Brockers is my favorite guy in this draft. If we can get him - huge score. Guess we’ll all just have to see what happens. I still think Lamar Miller would be a home run pick in the first round, and getting a playmaker like Orson Charles in the 2nd round would also be exciting. Shoot, I’d go bonkers if we draft RB in two of the first three rounds.

I don't mind a RB in the 1st so long as we don't pull a SD/Mathews move up for him.

when you do things the Charger way

you let mediocre coaches hang around far too long, you alienate your “fans” and prepare for a move to Los Angeles, no thanks Grace

Just draft one RB and resign Payton Hillis. Denver would be good to go with Hillis, Tebow, McGahee and LeMichael James. That would be hell to defend.

Lets cross our fingers that Julius Thomas develops.

Tebow and Hillis would have to work on not fumbling the damn ball though--both do it WAY too much.

And you didn’t include McGahee in there as a fumbler? Did you watch the 2011 season?

you're right all three of them

I’ll learn to deal with fumbles. They are much less likely to end up in a TD than an INT.

fumbles are frustrating

but they’re usually not back-breaking like interceptions are, except for that fumble the Giants got in the 4th Quarter that broke the Packers’ neck

Turnovers are terrible. And for some reason, our D doesn’t force any and our O gives them up too easily.

But I’d rather lose a fumble than INT 10 times out of 10. INTs seem more back breaking.

fully agreed

the Packers’ fumble that allowed the Giants to go on their 4-yard line was the exception rather than the rule, interceptions usually cause you to lose the hidden yardage game

Only one reason:

…Pressure. Our defense rarely creates pressure, that’s why there aren’t any turnovers. More reason for going DL with our picks and FA’s

and not just any DLineman. We don’t need extra bodies, we need special players who’ll create havoc, that’s why we need to nab the best available, or even trade up for one if our scouting dept. identifies a special player.

If we have a great CB who covers great but we apply no pressure, the QB will take his time and throw it to the exact spot where it can’t be intercepted. At worst, the QB will just take time to throw it to someone else.

With pressure from the DL, the QB won’t be able to throw it accurately to a spot. In this situation, and decent DB will have a good chance of making the INT.

what did we learn from the Steelers game?

the Steelers, notwithstanding their status as the #1 pass defense statistically coming into Wild Card weekend, Tebow torched them because they can’t cover forever, when the QB gets time, even all-time greats, such as Champ, can only cover for five seconds at the most

sure, and look at Champs INT numbers the past few years. It’s not where it should be for a H.O.F. CB like him.

Rec'd

Just see both Pats games this year. Drop 8 into coverage and dont pressure Brady and he will rip you apart every time

Except when you fumble on the wrong side of the field 3 times in the same quarter

I wanted to Brandon Marshall my tv when Cosby muffed that punt.

Wanted too? You should see the hole in my dry wall! I think the TV remote is back there somewhere.

I hate Quan Cosby

I'm not the only one with anger management issues!

uh, actually, not anymore but I had some doozies back in the day, the Broncos becoming good again has done wonders for my temperament!

Disagree. Sometimes an INT is like a premature punt.

They are when Cutler throws um deep. The one’s Orton threw… Nope… those one usually hurt like hell or ended up in our end zone.

Rumor has Tiki Barber wants to make a comeback.

maybe after we call tatum bell. tatum’s got a cell phone, right?

Do you really we should pay Hillis what he's asking?

Word is he wants 10 milllion guaranteed over in cleveland, and for a player thats been injured for 2 out of the 3 years he’s played and with fumbilitis I dont think he’s even worth the 4 million Cleveland is offering

I would easily pay Hillis 4 yrs, 20 million

As long as its incentive laden, fine

but I wouldnt give him anything more than 2 million guaranteed

Me too!

I’ve been reviewing the Free Agency list and the players who might be available. There are some intriguing names out there. Don’t know if they’ll actually be made available by their teams, but so many possibilities for us.

I think this is where we address Safety and O-line predominately. Some good pass rushers there as well

there are some good players available this year at many positions.

Potentially available RB's through Free Agency

Ray Rice,
Matt Forte,
Ryan Grant,
Peyton Hillis,
Mike Tolbert,
Micheal Bush,
Jason Snelling

Ray Rice is going nowhere. Ravens are a well run organisation that won't let a player like that walk.

That's why i listed all of the RB as potentially available only.

….But one can only hope tthe Ravens are stupid for just this once. :-))

Ozzie Newsome stupid? EHHH (buzzer on game show sound)

Nor will Matt Forte

The Bear/s OC finally saw the light and used him correctly. Before that they were screaming for his head.

Hillis only on the cheap

and I mean cheaper than the 4 million the Brownies are offering. Dude wants 10 mil upfront

I covet Jason Snelling

the guy is selfless and was a solid component to Michael Turner, it’s not like we haven’t robbed the Falcons before (Matt Prater…)

How many tight-ends has Denver drafted in the last few years?

5 or so? And we’ve brought in other TEs. Pains me to think we need to keep drafting for that position. I would hope JT will flower next year, obviating the need for spending another pick on a TE. Sheesh.

Schwerepunkt - January 17, 2012 reply

Good point

We drafted 3 since 2009, 4 if you go back to 2006, i can’t recall the 5th.
We’ve done the same with DB’s. Since 2009, we’ve drafted 3 CB’s and 4 safties.
How many DL’s since 2009? Exactly 2. Robert Ayers in the 1st and Jeremy Beal in the 7th.
Von Miller is an OLB. That’s another thing about the Miller pick. I do love him but he’s kind of a 3rd down specialist at this point, so he doesn’t count as a true DL.

How can JT flower next year?

did he even see any playing time?

Boiler, do you mean Julius Thomas? Elway said Thomas never fully recovered from the high ankle sprain. I heard Dumervil had a similar injury towards the end of the season. Its a difficult injury to recover from.

yes I was referring to Juluis.

Ugh kinda like Safety has been for us since 09

Free Agency + Draft

Given that list of free agents Alonio lists, I think we should be able to pick up someone of quality—the only question is whether the Broncos can AFFORD any of those guys. And we DO NOT need more TE’s: we have two capable veterans, and if either Thomas or Green can stay healthy, that’s plenty.

Meanwhile, to my mind the biggest needs are as follows:

1. Lightning fast, offensive playmaker who scares defenses and causes them worry (ala Sproles). LaMichael James might provide that (mainly as a third down back, or possibly even a slot receiver), and I think he’ll fall as late as the third round.

2. DT. Get someone who simply pushes things back up through the middle of the pocket. We already have a compliment of pretty quality DE’s, especially as Ayers is proving he can make some plays.

3. Safety/CB. Listen, Goodman got picked on a bit this year, but overall he’s been fairly solid and shows signs that he can develop. I think we have some decent young safeties, but nobody who can really go out there and put fear into people. Let’s shoot even higher than Dawkins—what about picking up another Atwater? That said, drafting another shutdown corner might be wise, given Champ’s age.

4. Quarterback? I say this with a bit of a grain of salt. We all hope Tebow is who we think he can be. But what if he hits a low ceiling? If someone of decent enough talent falls past the first round, then it would be extremely reckless not to at least hedge our bets. That said, if all the decent talent is snatched up too early, then this kind of pick might be a waste/redundancy.

5. LB. We have a pretty good corps right now, but some are aging, and others might bolt in free agency. Linebacker tends to be the sort of position that has considerable depth in every draft. Anybody know of someone we might get in the fifth round who could fit the bill?

Addendum

The one thing that gives me pause on DT is that we’re not quite sure what Ty Warren can do when healthy. We need depth here, but possibly not as one of our first three picks.

Regarding your point 3. You state that Goodman might develop? Dude's 33 years old and on his way out.

Do you not mean Harris?

No objections to a shut down CB 1st round pick if we can find him, but I just don’t see a shut down corner in the first round still available for us when we pick at 25.

The Stephen Gilmore pick in the 2nd round that Scotty Payne keeps banging on about looks much better value. Hard worker, great in zone. That will do while we continue to upgrade the front 7.

Looks like he'll be gone by our 2nd round pick

Scotty Payne - January 18, 2012 reply

Goodman

Ah, I didn’t realize Goodman was that old, silly me. Well then yes: not good enough. Meanwhile Harris and Carter (maybe also Thompson) are looking pretty decent as rookies, and should develop, though none of them are the sort of safety anyone fears (while we’re wishing, why not a Polamalu clone?).

Agreed on Gilmore: has potential and should probably be available.

Not sure why you think the team will be "built around Tebow"

but that’s for a different discussion.
Like th Louis Murphy thing.

I honestly think our biggest needs are DT, DE, MLB.

I am of the school of thought that good pass defense starts with a good pass rush. If we can grab another top notch DE to start opposite Doom then we’ll have no drop off when Miller drops into coverage and if we have a pocket collapsing DT that can contribute 5 sacks and command some double teams then that will free up an additional rusher even more for when we decide to rush Miller in addition to our pass rushing ends.

This IMO will help the secondary as well because QBs won’t have near as much time to find an open receiver or get through their progressions which is essential when facing teams like the Patriots (any team for that matter).

Fox seems to agree

"(The) problems we had this year when people spread us out," Fox said, "we have to identify that and upgrade where we can. The best pass defense in the world is a pass rush. I don’t think you can ever get too good in that area if you look at the teams that are playing next weekend."

I do think CB is a huge need but I think a 2nd round CB like Stephen Gilmore would be a great addition.

I would like to see our 1st pick spent on any of the following positions DE, DT, CB, RB, MLB (if an elite prospect is available).

I don’t see an elite CB, MLB being there when we pick so I think we’ll either pick one of the other 3 or trading into the early 2nd round and grabbing another pick.

I could also see us grabbing Mark Barron in rd 1 if Dawk retires. I wouldn’t be opposed but I’d be disappointed that they made a mistake in grabbing Moore last year.

Pass Rush

I agree with your overall logic, but if we want to beat the Brady’s of the NFL, we need a rush UP THE MIDDLE, in the way that the Giants have built their front line. We have 2-3 proven DE’s, and some solid backups. How about drafting a beast INSIDE? Even in the NE game there were a few times where we got outside pressure, but then Brady just stepped up the middle and delivered. I think given our ample needs elsewhere, I feel like drafting another DE would be redundant.

We need both IMO. That is why I put them at #1 and #2 of importance.

We need a pocket collapsing DT for sure but we also need a pass rusher who is much more consistent than Ayers opposite Doom. the only proven pass rushing DE we have is Doom. Ayers is a good run DE but very inconsistent rushing the passer. Hunter is good rotation but also not consistent. Harvey is a joke. Miller can’t be counted because it isn’t his true position. If we want to put him on the line full time and draft another SLB then fine but until then we need another pass rushing DE as well as a middle pocket collapser.

Receivers getting "open" and drops

I think a lot of problems we had at the receiver position have a lot to do with the mid-season switch at QB. I think the drops really started becoming noticeable when Tebow became the starter. My hypothesis is that the left handed spin of the ball combined with Tebow’s inconsistent spiral is something the WRs are going to need time to get used to.

As far as the receivers getting open, I think Tebow needs work on making his reads quicker, and reading the defense before the snap to have a better idea who the open receiver is going to be. Several replays are memorable to me where Tebow takes off running left when a receiver on the right side of the field is just making his break and has good separation from his defender.

Due to these two things I think WR is less of a need than some are arguing. Not to commit blasphemy but I could see Thomas and Decker working out a lot like Rod and Eddie did. They just need to get used to how their QB delivers the ball

gOOn - January 17, 2012 reply

Receiving corps

Totally agreed with this, actually. Involve the TE’s more, and really utilize a dump off playmaker, whether this is Moreno (meh) or drafting as I suggested—someone like LaMichael James. It would be nice if we had one more quality slot receiver to take over for the underwhelming abilities of Royal and Willis, but that’s not something to draft for.

Some of those DT and Decker drops where sorry as all hell.

Those two are young and they lack consistent concentration.

With Decker and Orton, there were several plays where Orton would audible and Decker had no earthly idea. Those two were often not on the same page.

Eric did regress with Tebow, but Decker had some ugly moments with Orton as the QB as well.

Anyone listening to 102.3 right now? Les Shapiro and JoJo are going off on Tebow. I can’t take it anymore.

I should have warned you

never listen to those retards, Alfred’s not much better, for Denver radio, 850 KOA is the AM for me. Dave Logan is always fair, he’s a Broncos fan who broadcasts really well, Brandon Spano is a stud as well

mike evans might be the bottom of the worst though. just sayin. he’s battling it out with les.

I’m turning it off.